Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ron,
I'm not the smartest man in the world, but I did know that you would 'not get it' (at least I was pretty sure).
Also "Everyone is wrong, but only you are right, right", you seem to be missing some other posts from people who also agree that mold testing it not for HIs to be doing. Leave it for the CIH and Microbiologists (the SMART people, they are trained for it, years and years of training, not just hours or even days).
Originally Posted By: dplummer This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry! Thanks for your opinion. I guess it’s safe to say we agree to disagree.Just as in a HI we don’t warranty the items we inspect, so it is for me with respects mold sampling. We provide our customers with data to make an informed decision. I have consulted with my lawyer & insurance co to cover my a$$, Have you? Or is this just your gut feeling? In any case, I respect your decision that you make for your self. I hope that you would do the same for me & others who choose not to agree with your point of view. Respectfully-DOUG
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ron, Bob, Doug, Al,
Al posted this back a few posts.
al wrote:
I to do mold sampling as well as home inspection and have been for some years now,and just to let some know,there are condo associations here in south Florida that do not require a home inspection but will not let the buyer go to closing with out a mold clearance.If anyone is looking for my honest opinion just drop me an email with or without your phone number and i will be glad to share all I know.
You don't think that is "certifying" there is no mold????
THAT IS EXACTLY what you are doing when your mold test come back okay.
Al,
Would you care to explain and elaborate on what kind of MOLD CLEARANCE they want?
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
, “certify” a dwelling as being “mold free.” This would be professional suicide (IMHO).
What I am learning is that my job will be to;
"certify and/or verify whether or not toxic mold levels are within the acceptable limits (as described by the governing body) at the time of the inspection."
At this point, in CA, there are no guidelines as to "what is acceptable" with regards to toxic mold and there is no governing body. This may all be changing soon.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: rbracklow This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Jeff, long time no talk
Actually in California we do have an entity that directs Mold activities, it is the State of California Department of Health, and there are acceptable levels, hazard levels, call EMSL Labs, and speak to Leslie Boggs, or one of their Scientists, and they'll be more than happy to give you min/max levels.
Hope that helps,
Ron.
-- The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Okay, color me stupid. I was not aware that CA had adopted acceptable and/or unacceptable limits of toxic mold. I am aware that the state recognizes the problem and is pushing legislation for guidelines as is CAR.
My understanding is that currently, even trace amounts of toxic mold may mandate remediation when, in fact, there may be no significant health risk.
I think that the mold remediation companies that offer sampling are the ones pouring gasoline onto these embers in an effort to make their buck before the government steps in.
Presently, most home owners are "afraid" to allow sampling during transactions for fear of losing the deal and then possibly losing the ability to sell their home.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: rbracklow This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Actually the irony here is, if I perform an inspection and I find indication of Mold, I note it in my report whether or not the Buyer/Seller wants me to or not.
typically a discussion ensues what should be done, I suggest a sample to be taken to determine toxicity levels and a possible course of remediation, which of course I don't touch.
Most of the time, I only find small amounts of Mold which usually can be easily remediated, problem solved and the clients love me for it!! I had one case where these people were ready to move because the lady thought that it was the neighborhood that caused her allergies. After I found the Mold, it was remediated, the symptoms went away, and they decided to stay at their home of many years. Do we provide a service, you bet we do!!  
Ron.
-- The highest compliment my clients can give me, is the referral of their Friends, Family and Business Associates!
Originally Posted By: al This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry its the Lab that makes the decision not me,I will gladly fax you a report from the Lab so you can see for yourself.They are the ones that make and document their results which I then forward to the customer
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
al wrote:
Jerry its the Lab that makes the decision not me,I will gladly fax you a report from the Lab so you can see for yourself.They are the ones that make and document their results which I then forward to the customer
And the lab tells you EXACTLY where to take the samples, and EXACTLY how to take them, and leaves NOTHING to your discretion?
If not, YOU are providing the clearance, and the lab is only providing documentation on the samples YOU provided.
Originally Posted By: rwills This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I don’t know about the rest, but my samples are done according to the labs protocols and the results are done by the lab. There are companies out there that do offer mold clearances which is an entirely different document than a lab result ( which I would never offer or use BTW), So unless you’re also the worlds smartest attorney, you’re wrong, because my attorney has no problem with my SOP or disclosures. Also, I believe one should do extensive research before either getting into or knocking the field. For instance, I hear a lot of naysayers state that “we should leave this to the CIH’s”. Well, not only do the majority of Certified Industrial Hygienists work in the “Industrial” or work place environment fields, only a few have any mold knowledge under their belt and do not do, nor offer residential type inspections, and even if they did, the average home buyer in the home purchasing process wouldn’t be able to afford the service. BTW, The info was gathered from the American Board of Industrial Hygiene! But of course they probably don’t know what they’re talking about either.
Originally Posted By: al This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
No Jerry I do that ,Just like I do my Home Inspections.I was under the impression that you were capable of doing Home Inspections with out supervision,By the way,No one ever answered my question as to is there any Federally mandated guidelines for home inspection like you want to see for mold inspection
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ron,
I am definitely not aware that California or any other state has established acceptable or unacceptable standards for mold. NY was one of the cities leading the way, and they backed away in a hurry. As I said, to my knowledge, there are no established acceptable or unacceptable standards for mold. And let's be very clear here... ALL mold is toxic to one degree or another.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
How much mold can make me sick?
It depends. For some people, a relatively small number of mold spores can trigger an asthma attack or lead to other health problems. For other persons, symptoms may occur only when exposure levels are much higher. Nonetheless, indoor mold growth is unsanitary and undesirable. Basically, if you can see or smell mold inside your home, take steps to identify and eliminate the excess moisture and to cleanup and remove the mold.
Are some molds more hazardous than others?
Allergic persons vary in their sensitivities to mold, both as to the amount and the types to which they react. In addition to their allergic properties, certain types of molds, such as Stachybotris chartarum, may produce compounds that have toxic properties, which are called mycotoxins. Mycotoxins are not always produced, and whether a mold produces mycotoxins while growing in a building depends on what the mold is growing on, conditions such as temperature, pH, humidity or other unknown factors. When mycotoxins are present, they occur in both living and dead mold spores and may be present in materials that have become contaminated with molds. While Stachybotrys is growing, a wet slime layer covers its spores, preventing them from becoming airborne. However, when the mold dies and dries up, air currents or physical handling can cause spores to become airborne.
At present there is no environmental test to determine whether Stachybotrys growth found in buildings is producing toxins. There is also no blood or urine test that can establish if an individual has been exposed to Stachybotrys chartarum spores or its toxins.
Quote:
Should I test my home for mold?
The California Department of Health Services does not recommend testing as a first step to determine if you have a mold problem. Reliable air sampling for mold can be expensive and requires expertise and equipment that is not available to the general public. Owners of individual private homes and apartment generally will need to pay a contractor to carry out such sampling, because insurance companies and public health agencies seldom provide this service. Mold inspection and cleanup is usually considered a housekeeping task that is the responsibility of homeowner or landlord, as are roof and plumbing repairs, house cleaning, and yard maintenance.
Another reason the health department does not recommend testing for mold contamination is that there are few available standards for judging what is an acceptable quantity of mold. In all locations, there is some level of airborne mold outdoors. If sampling is carried out in a home, an outdoor air sample also must be collected at the same time as the indoor samples, to provide a baseline measurement. Because individual susceptibility varies so greatly, sampling is at best a general guide.
The simplest way to deal with a suspicion of mold contamination is: If you can see or smell mold, you likely have a problem and should take the steps outlined below. Mold growth is likely to recur unless the source of moisture that is allowing mold to grow is removed and the contaminated area is cleaned.
These excerpts were taken from website of the American Industrial Hygenists Association (AIHA)
Quote:
The available science is incomplete and sometimes controversial. Although there are several guidance documents available, there is no accepted national standard. Validated methods to measure contamination are still in their infancy, and even when measurement techniques are available, there are no clear benchmarks or standard values to compare the results against. Similar scientific uncertainties exist in the medical diagnosis of some mold-related health effects.
The scientific complexities alone would be a huge challenge, but the truth is that other difficulties dwarf them. The intense public and media attention on this topic often creates emotionally charged circumstances that make scientific judgment and reasoned dialogue difficult.
Further...
[
Quote:
i][b]Should I test my home for mold? [/b][/i]
Probably not. Looking for evidence of water damage and visible mold growth should be your first step. Testing for mold is expensive, and you should have a clear reason for doing so. In addition, there are no standards for acceptable levels of mold in the indoor environment. When testing is done, it is usually to compare the levels and types of mold spores found inside the home with those found outdoors. If you know you have a mold problem, it is more important to spend time and resources getting rid of the mold and solving the moisture problem causing the moldy conditions.
Ron, I dont know what Leslie is telling you, exacxtly. but, from what I have read and researched since the start of this thread (from HUD), she is way off base.
Further, your state has no mandate for levels at this time, the state guidelines mimick the EPA's position statement, and the very organization who certified EMSL, goes against her stated position on the matter.
This is part of the problem. Rumor becomes fact, and fact becomes truth. Truth is, federal guidelines will likely bar HIs from performing these tests without some heavy credentials to back them up as sample takers. All the major IAQ and CIH orgs (including microbiologists) have pretty much agreed on this tact for qualification. I feel they have good reason.
So guys, dont believe me. Go to the ESML site, look who accredits them, then go to that site for info on testing. Then, for you California guys, go to your own state's site. See what California says on the subject.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: jremas This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The simple fact is that we are asked if we do mold testing on a daily basis. I am against HIs who spend $300. on a pump and are now certified mold experts.
I don't do mold but I can have the services provided by a certified mycologist who does a thorough investigation and provides data from that report whether it be airborne testing, indoor/outdoor comparisons, visual mold sampling or all of the above. The people are billed separately from me because they are the experts and I am not..........not to mention mold testing insurance is hard to come by.
You can offer it when asked but refer it to the experts. Taking a 1-2 day course and calling yourself certified is bogus. Lots of you folks sub out other inspections and mold should be no different.
Testing has its place in the inspection process when asked for by the client but the HI industry is cashing in without the proper background. If you do what is right for your client and not your pocketbook, it will pay off in the long run.
The mold industry is in its infancy and until the goverment sets standards for testing, we need to keep our greedy little hands out of it. To me this is no different than us doing engineering.
--
Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
rbracklow wrote:
Actually in California we do have an entity that directs Mold activities, it is the State of California Department of Health, and there are acceptable levels, hazard levels. . .
I made a few phone calls today (not to the specific lab you suggested) and have found that there are no state guidelines set for acceptable/non-acceptable levels of toxic mold elevations.
Some labs have set their own standards that will vary from lab to lab, but the state has taken no position.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
The California Department of Health Services does not recommend testing as a first step to determine if you have a mold problem. Reliable air sampling for mold can be expensive and requires expertise and equipment that is not available to the general public.
Another reason the health department does not recommend testing for mold contamination is that there are few available standards for judging what is an acceptable quantity of mold
And there you have it. Every state, as far as I know, follows the EPA guidelines and the CDCs recommendations on mold and mold testing. Its all the same... No standards. Testing not recommended unless requested by a health care professional.
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Okay, color me stupid. I was not aware that CA had adopted acceptable and/or unacceptable limits of toxic mold. I am aware that the state recognizes the problem and is pushing legislation for guidelines as is CAR.