Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I am not an ASHI member, but I was.
–
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.
I much prefer email to private messages.
I am not an ASHI member, but I was.
I much prefer email to private messages.
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff:
Having our 555 Florida NACHI members is helpful, but not the force by which I shall keep stupid proposed legislation failing in Tallahassee forever  .
Keep it real... There will be no licensing in FL without NACHI, try as you may.
--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.
I much prefer email to private messages.
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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| gbeaumont wrote: |
| Hi to all,
Jerry P, are you being deliberately obtuse, or do you really not get it ? |
Gerry, I am responding to, and answering, Joe B.'s question as he presents them. I have been doing nothing more and nothing less.
I cannot help it if Joe B.'s questions are only concentrated on his concerns (and even then, he changes his questions when he doesn't like my answers).
| Quote: |
| as Dan previously commented there are many inspectors currently working in FL who would not be grandfathered under the proposed legislation, unfortunately there will also be many incompetents who will.
I personally know several inspectors whose inspection knowledge is very good but who have failed to complete 250 inspections in the last 3 years, many inspectors (like myself I must add) have other business interests on top of their inspection practices, any many more who have come into the business over the last couple of years are as Dan pointed out still building their businesses, what realistically is their position under the current bill ?? |
That is one of the things I worked for, but did not get. I wanted (and still want - the realist in me wants this) the time to begin on the day licensing takes effect, and if the required time in business before the effective date is 3 years, then the effective date is 3 years from the day the licensing takes effect. I.e., If you started in business the day before the licensing took effect, you have exactly 3 years to get 3 years in. If you were in business before the day licensing took effect, you're in when you complete everything else.
| Quote: |
| A further thought also comes to mind, you often make comment on the fact that very many of your inspections take several days to complete, have you yourself managed to do 250 in the last 3 years ?? |
Because I started out like all other HIs, doing 2-3 hour inspections. I grew beyond that. Over time, my inspections became 3-4 hours, then 5-6 hours, then one day, then one and a half days, then two days. Now, on most of my houses, I am there two days, unless they only have one day, them I hit the major items and go from there.
| Quote: |
| One last point, I see many reports from NHIE holders in New Hampshire (an unlicensed state similar to FL) who have done thousands of home inspections, however many of them I would not have work for me, due to the very poor quality of their reports. |
I've seen the same thing down here, and am sure it is the same all over.
| Quote: |
| This should not be a numbers game Jerry, it should be a qualitative one. |
I agree, BUT for grandfathering purposes, one MUST give some credit for 'time served'. "Experience" is not the end all, but neither is "education". You need BOTH to KNOW what you are doing. As much as I dislike many reports I see, if an HI has been in business 6 years, they MUST be doing enough right to not be sued into bankruptcy.
And protecting the public is the basis for all licensing. Making every HI the BEST home inspector out there is not even a remote part of licensing. Establishing MINIMUM standards is all that licensing does.
| Quote: |
| BTW, I am very PRO licensing, and ANTI protectionist led legislation in equal measure. |
Good, then we are on the same page. (Boy, I sure could not tell it from your post, though.)
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Deleted…
–
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry Peck nails it correctly with his quote:
"Making every HI the BEST home inspector out there is not even a remote part of licensing. Establishing MINIMUM standards is all that licensing does."
--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.
I much prefer email to private messages.
Originally Posted By: jpeck
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Joe B.,
It's no corner you painted there. That is your doorway in.
| jburkeson wrote: |
| Lets see, if a Florida Home Inspector was already in the home inspection business (County License) with a minimum of 1-day & 1-inspection on day-1 of licensing then he would have 3-years to accomplish all requirements?, Am I right so far?  |
Right, so far.
| Quote: |
| Now, is it safe to say that that business entity would be able to operate freely for three years to acquire all the items necessary to become licensed, without being indentured to another licensed inspector? Is that the proposal?  |
Mostly right. If I had been able to get it through as I wanted, those 'already in business but in business less than 3 years' would be temporarily 'licensed' (you could call it a 'provisional' license, they would be registered on the licensing register so they could be kept track of), and they would have to operate within all the limits and restrictions of a a full licensee. They would be notified that the deadline was 180 days away, then 90 days, then 30 days, then they are out (if they have not fulfilled the rest of the requirements).
| Quote: |
| Now, how about those eligible for grandfathering, would they immediately receive a license? |
Like the inspectors in the response just above, they would receive a 'provisional' license, and would have the same 3 year period to complete the requirements. The sooner they complete the requirements (which may just be filling out paper work) the sooner they are issued a full license.
| Quote: |
| If so (you all see where I am going here) the business that is struggling to acquire a license will be unlicensed in a market where others are already licensed and using that license in their marketing documents? |
Nope, that is where you are incorrect on your assumptions. They will be issued the same 'provisional' license good for the duration of the time allowed.
| Quote: |
| Sort of like being an ASHI candidate (spit), don't you think? Only someone who is guaranteed to be grandfathered would concoct such regulations while believing that it was an honest attempt at a level playing field!! |
Nope, nothing like that.
| Quote: |
| Jerry, paint yourself out of this corner if you can! |
Like I keep saying Joe, you need to quit being so negative and think positive. You just painted your doorway in.
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi to all,
Jerry, the "provisional licensing" idea has much to commend it, and had the bill included such provision I think it would have quieted many genuine concerns from existing inspectors. However that (up to press) has not been the case, and I bet that your proposal was quashed by the existing inspectors not the legislature.
Shame, it is a good idea.
Regards
Gerry
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| jpeck wrote: |
| Mostly right. If I had been able to get it through as I wanted, those 'already in business but in business less than 3 years' would be temporarily 'licensed' (you could call it a 'provisional' license, they would be registered on the licensing register so they could be kept track of), and they would have to operate within all the limits and restrictions of a a full licensee. They would be notified that the deadline was 180 days away, then 90 days, then 30 days, then they are out (if they have not fulfilled the rest of the requirements). |
Well Jerry,
When you put it like that it almost becomes palpable, but as you well know, that was never spelled out in either of the house or senate bills sent down last year, and if either of those bills had been adopted that is not what would have been instituted as licensing requirements.
My suggestion, well I have two... 
1). Spell out the full ramifications to current home inspectors and the path future home inspectors will need to take to become licensed.
2). Don't shut NACHI out of negotiations, it will be impossible for any bill to be filed without our knowledge, have you met our lobbyist Matt DuPree?
--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Originally Posted By: bhendry
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Jerry P,
Indulge me if you will.
Do you have any simple clear Home Inspector related data to support the statement "And protecting the public is the basis for all licensing."?
Regards,
Bill
Originally Posted By: Jeff G. Hooper
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Of coarse I do not think you have to work for ASHI inspectors. Nor does the Licensing require that. What is kool aiding you mind.
I think, that what I think, does not matter. The FABI membership directs from the bottom up what we at the Director and Legislative branch do. That is how things work, you know, the whole democratic thing. We are not the sheep following a leader that owns the Association.
My skin is pretty thick. It has to be. Words speak for themselves and believe it or not, I can read. I do not like what I am reading in this forum. In fact, I am embarrassed by the naive and brainwashed ideas that are being posted. After all, I would expect that others can read. Show me where NHIE is stated in the Bill. Show me where ASHI is the requirement. You cannot. Just for your information I am not, nor have I ever been an ASHI inspector. In fact I have had my battles with them.
I do have respect for their inspectors though. They have passed a tough test and regardless of their field ability, they have demonstrated a level of competency that is recognized by most states and the courts.
Last year was the first year many of us in Florida heard about NACHI. Why is that? We have been here, where were you?
You will not find your views acceptable to the majority of FABI members. And there are some FABI members that do not like ASHI. It is ok to disagree. It is not OK to put down other Associations the way you are ASHI. If you, NACHI, are as good as you say you are, and your standards truly are tougher than ASHI, then what is the threat. You will be accepted by the Licensing board as greater or equal qualifications.
But we put our hats aside to come to common ground and help each other do the right thing for this industry. At some time in the future you may need this bridge you are burning now. I can only hope for your sake there is enough of your bridge left to salvage.
These are very old battles, that have left scars with many inspectors. You have, and are making enemies. More bridges burned.
I did initially invite Nick to attend the Licensing meeting; however, he decided to announce his invitation as if it was some big deal and pronounced that I was a member when I was not. He further implied that he totally dominates the inspection industry in Florida. An unsubstantiated claim that will not lend to anything but animosity. This must be some sick way to brag. You do not tell the President of the largest, and oldest, inspection organization in the state that you completely dominate the market. He needs to provide specific proof to me if he wants my respect. His word is no good any longer.
I just looked at our yellow pages. Lots of FABI, ASHI and NAHI. Also AAH I, HAFI, HIF and AHI in the over 100 listings. No NACHI advertisement or letters. I guess Palm Beach is not a NACHI target area? So, then, NACHI dominates nothing in Palm Beach County., right? Maybe this is a sales and marketing thing. I would not know. What I do know is how many inspections are being performed in my 5 county area. I also know who my competitors are and have been in the last 10 years. And I know who is doing the inspections and for whom.
All
Jeff G. Hooper
Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Quote: |
| You will not find your views acceptable to the majority of FABI members. And there are some FABI members that do not like ASHI. It is ok to disagree. It is not OK to put down other Associations the way you are ASHI. If you, NACHI, are as good as you say you are, and your standards truly are tougher than ASHI, then what is the threat. You will be accepted by the Licensing board as greater or equal qualifications. |
Mr. Hooper,
I'm sure you recognize the absolutely grueling requirements NACHI members must meet before they are officially certified by NACHI.
Surely the rigorous demands that NACHI imposes will qualify for licensure..in fact, the un-moderated online test with its abysmal pass rate, and the ethics obstacle course (obstacle course ..it still makes me giggle that ethics are an obstacle...marketing idea gone bad) most certainly will set THE standard for Florida and eventually all states and then the world.
Nick said so.. that's Nick Gromicko, EEF-EPA, FAPHI, NACHI ED, ETC.
Originally Posted By: Jeff G. Hooper
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Yes, The next marketing stragety: NACHI totally dominates the Home Inspection Industry in the World and two of Jupiters Moons.
I like the sound of it. Might actually join if this can be achieved.
Jeff
Originally Posted By: bhendry
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Chad,
Care to quantify what grueling measures are necessary?
There are PE's, PHD,s probably MD's here.
Regards,
Bill
Originally Posted By: dedwards
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I am one of those nefarious inspectors from the panhandle. Ive read through the entire thread. I just want to throw something out there for consideration. Does anyone think that the State of Florida is going to gleefully throw out all the money to set up, form and regulate this industry? Regulations and regulators costs a lot of money to start and then to maintain. With all the sheckels that Florida has just spent and is going to spend after 4 hurricanes in 6 weeks is it even realistic to think that this or any other new costly regulations and/or bureaucracy is going to be forthcoming in the near future. One other thing. Licensing is often looked upon as the panacea to cure all the ills within any profession. Florida licenses barbers. You can still go out and get a real crappy haircut just about any place in Pensacola. Doctors are licensed…that hasn’t stopped them from killing and misdiagnoising literally hundreds of thousands of Americans every year. Here’s one that should hit close to home. Florida licenses General Contractors. Do we ever see poor construction? If the national Associations develope their standards to match or make better than the minimal standards that licensing requires and one of the requirements to perform home inspections in Florida is to be a Certified member of a nationally recognized Home Inspection Association than what is the problem? Either we believe in quality our professional Associations or we don’t. By the Associations going to the State and saying “Please regulate us” we are saying we can’t regulate ourselves or our industry. Just as someone said once the state says they are going to license a profession every Tom, Dick and Harry who ever remotely thought about being an inspector will be down buying his or her occupational license. And all the bad inspectors that you are trying to get rid of will also be grandfathered right along side you. So you won’t be rid of them anyway. They will now be licensed just like you. Just so you know I have being doing inspections for 10 years so I am not a newbie. Just something to think about.
Originally Posted By: Jeff G. Hooper
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See what happens when you get a little free time. You waste it talking to people that you will never in a million years change thier minds. Yours, or mine.
Have a good day, Stay Safe out there. See you in the trenches,
Jeff G. Hooper
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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than FABI induced regulationless Florida requires.
–
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.
I much prefer email to private messages.
Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| bhendry wrote: |
| Chad,
Care to quantify what grueling measures are necessary? |
Exactly.
| Quote: |
| There are PE's, PHD,s probably MD's here.
Regards, Bill |
Again, exactly. To make a point: get 2 or 3 thousand folks together anywhere, anytime and you'll have some PE's, PHD's and MD's. Even at a Grateful Dead concert.
Possibly, the crowd at professional wrestling might miss the mark.
Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
At the beginning of this thread Nick was all a quiver to have Jeff Hooper NACHI member and FABI president at his disposal. Now things have taken a strange shift, a surreal shift… a twilight zone shift.
FABI is bad?
Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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No, I said on this thread somewhere that FABI is doing a good job in many areas. They are just wasting their time trying to get legislation through Tallahassee without NACHI. Take the sentence for what it is.
FABI has no chance in this area. NACHI has is it all sewed up. I don't care who believes it and who doesn't.
--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.
I much prefer email to private messages.
Originally Posted By: jburkeson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mr. Hooper,
I will comment interspersed with your post.
I think, that what I think, does not matter.
What you think matters a great deal, you represent a large association and I as a member of that association am asking you if you believe that my qualifications (RPI) meet the criteria for state licensing, a fair question I believe.
My skin is pretty thick. It has to be. Words speak for themselves and believe it or not, I can read. I do not like what I am reading in this forum. In fact, I am embarrassed by the naive and brainwashed ideas that are being posted. After all, I would expect that others can read.
I am sorry for your embarrassment , but some of are struggling over questions concerning our livelihood, and we believe that we are entitled to our voice.
Show me where NHIE is stated in the Bill. Show me where ASHI is the requirement. You cannot. Just for your information I am not, nor have I ever been an ASHI inspector. In fact I have had my battles with them.
Well it is not directly stated, that would be too obvious, but it is surely implied, join the club most of have had our ASHI battles, in normal situations it would make us allies.
I do have respect for their inspectors though. They have passed a tough test and regardless of their field ability, they have demonstrated a level of competency that is recognized by most states and the courts.
We are NACHI and you are entitled to your opinion, that is why we can have this conversation, you never need feel threatened here, nor will anything you post on this message board ever be altered or deleted.
Last year was the first year many of us in Florida heard about NACHI. Why is that? We have been here, where were you?
It is possible that you were preoccupied with licensing legislature, we were here building our organization and you never noticed.
You will not find your views acceptable to the majority of FABI members. And there are some FABI members that do not like ASHI. It is ok to disagree. It is not OK to put down other Associations the way you are ASHI. If you, NACHI, are as good as you say you are, and your standards truly are tougher than ASHI, then what is the threat. You will be accepted by the Licensing board as greater or equal qualifications.
ASHI tolerates FABI?s presence, that is not the case with NACHI from day one they have attacked, sued and defamed us, there is an ongoing cold war and no one knows how it will turn out, stay tuned.
But we put our hats aside to come to common ground and help each other do the right thing for this industry. At some time in the future you may need this bridge you are burning now. I can only hope for your sake there is enough of your bridge left to salvage.
Again you are entitled to your opinion, I do not see it as bridge burning, but, NACHI will be respected as an equal.
These are very old battles, that have left scars with many inspectors. You have, and are making enemies. More bridges burned.
If seeking respect and a level playing field creates enemies, so be it, NACHI will be respected as an equal.
I did initially invite Nick to attend the Licensing meeting; however, he decided to announce his invitation as if it was some big deal and pronounced that I was a member when I was not. He further implied that he totally dominates the inspection industry in Florida. An unsubstantiated claim that will not lend to anything but animosity. This must be some sick way to brag. You do not tell the President of the largest, and oldest, inspection organization in the state that you completely dominate the market. He needs to provide specific proof to me if he wants my respect. His word is no good any longer.
Nick is a wonderful executive director who puts NACHI first, sometimes his zeal for NACHI is taken the wrong way, I am sure he did not mean any disrespect for you or FABI, I have never heard him ever say anything derogatory about FABI as a matter of fact he has endorsed FABI?s continuing education programs for NACHI members, I hope that there is a reconciliation between you both real soon. BTW I personally see no conflict of interest being both a NACHI & FABI member.
I just looked at our yellow pages. Lots of FABI, ASHI and NAHI. Also AAH I, HAFI, HIF and AHI in the over 100 listings. No NACHI advertisement or letters. I guess Palm Beach is not a NACHI target area? So, then, NACHI dominates nothing in Palm Beach County., right? Maybe this is a sales and marketing thing. I would not know. What I do know is how many inspections are being performed in my 5 county area. I also know who my competitors are and have been in the last 10 years. And I know who is doing the inspections and for whom.
Give it time, the new books are just coming out, rest assured NACHI is here to stay.
--
Joseph Burkeson, RPI (Hooperette)
?Anyone who has proclaimed violence his method inexorably must choose lying as his principle.?
~ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn