Official Report on Florida Licensing

General Inspection Topics Legislation, Licensing, Ethics & Legal Issues
141

Here is a good list of the problems with the Mold / HI bills. This list was the work of Harold Weise, one of FAPHI’s Directors. Harold has done almost all of the research and footwork for FAPHI in building opposition to a poorly conceived and written bill. Those of you who are needing some ammunition to write your Reps can use this to show them where the holes, contradictions, and inconsistencies are. Too late to influence anyone on any committees, the time to do that is past. Contact the sponsors, reps and the Governor office, phone,fax and emails. Interestingly, the Governor’s office tells us that very few have even contacted them so the impression there was the Florida HIs liked this bill. I believe the word used was “complacent”. This list is being added to the FAPHI website but isn’t in place yet and is the reason it is being posted here. We are running out of time if you do not like or want a weak, convoluted piece of legislation.

SUMMARY OF KEY ISSUES

Combined summaries
Regarding: HB161CS, CS/SB1046 & SB2670

I. HB161CS - Building Assessment and Remediation

Three professions or occupations are contained within this proposed legislation. They are, namely, mold assessment, mold remediation and home inspection. 

  1. Part 468.83 states that the intent of the legislation is that such occupations “regulated in a manner that does not unnecessarily restrict entry into such professions or occupations”. In part 468.842, sec. C, (4) it is stated a person may work as a home inspector if he or she discloses to the customer, prior to contracting, “ a statement of experience that includes either the approximate number of home inspections the home inspector has performed for a fee or the number of years of experience as a home inspector”. This requirement unnecessarily restricts entry into this profession or occupation and is contrary to the stated intent of the legislation, as well as, being contradictory to the intent of the “Sunrise Act” in section 11.62, Florida Statutes.

  2. Part 468.844,  (1a) allows a home inspector, for an additional fee, to perform repairs to a home on which the home inspector or the inspector’s company has prepared a home inspection report. This is a definite conflict of interest and not in the best interests of the customer. A home inspector should be restricted from performing repairs for a period of 12 months from the date of inspection. This should be no different than the requirement imposed upon mold assessors as proposed in part 468.834, (1B).

  3. Part 468.832, sec. (1), (a)1 and 2 requires that “a person shall not work as a mold remediator or mold assessor unless he or she has evidence of, or works under the direct supervision of a person who has evidence of … at least a 2-year degree in microbiology, engineering, architecture, industrial hygiene safety, or a related field of science …, along with … “. Mold assessors and mold remediators are trained by institutions involved with indoor air quality issues with emphasis on mold discovery and related causes, correction of defects causing mold and removal practices of mold. There are presently many accredited, non-profit organizations providing the proper training without reaching the level of a degree in microbiology or any science related field.  This requirement could not be met by those individuals and businesses now operating in these professions or occupations in the time frame allowed for compliance to this proposed legislation and has an unreasonable effect on job retention in the state.

II. SB2670 – Home Inspection Services

  1. Section 501.935, (2), 3, d provides for a requirement to practice as a home inspector that the individual

“ discloses to the consumer in writing prior to contracting for or commencing a home inspection … a statement of experience that includes either the approximate number of home inspections the home inspector has performed for a fee or the number of years of experience as a home inspector”. This requirement restricts entry into this profession or occupation and is contradictory to the intent of the “Sunrise Act” in section 11.62, Florida Statutes.

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  1. Section 501.935, (4), (a), 1 ) allows a home inspector, for an additional fee, to perform repairs to a home on which the home inspector or the inspector’s company has prepared a home inspection report. This is a definite conflict of interest and not in the best interests of the customer. A home inspector should be restricted from performing repairs for a period of 12 months from the date of inspection.

III. CS/SB1046 - Mold Assessment & Mold Remediation

  1. Section 489.604, (5), (c) defines mold assessment to include “the development of a mold management plan, development of a remediation protocol, and postabatement evaluation of a property”, and paragraph (6) defines a “mold assessor” to be any person or business that performs a mold assessment. The development of a mold management plan and a development of a remediation protocol is NOT the responsibility of the mold assessor, but is the responsibility of the mold remediator whose is the actual entity performing the remediation by their procedures. A postabatement evaluation of the property is an elective decision by the consumer, and this evaluation is not always performed after remediation and, thereby, should not be made mandatory so as to cause undue expenses upon the consumer.

  2. Section 489.612, (1) states that a mold assessor or a mold remediator may obtain a renewal license in either of his or her occupation only if the licensee has satisfactorily demonstrated his or her competence in mold assessment AND mold remediation. This would mean singularly no renewal license may be issued since these are two different professions or occupations.

142

Excellent Harold!

143

The Bill Has Been Engrossed On The Second Reading In The House.

04/28/06 HOUSE Placed on Special Order Calendar; Read second time;
Amendment(s) adopted; Ordered engrossed

Now we wait for the Senate to fast track the Bill through next week to go to the Governor.

144

The Home Inspector Portion of the Bill is now DOA - [FONT=Times New Roman]On April 28, HB 161 was given its second reading and amended. The amendment removed all language pertaining to home inspectors from the bill. HB 161 engrossednow only relates to mold assessment and mold remediaters. The bill is on the third reading calendar and could be taken up at any time.[/FONT]

Better luck next year. :smiley:

145

And will the mold part die also.

And these people were voted into office

Someone really wants this mold thing. Was not one of the tricks last year to hook it on to the HI bill in the hopes of getting it through

Now someone felt the being hooked to HI would hurt it. Wonder if the letter writing etc. did work?

rlb

146

Not a chance, this act was performed by the ASHI lobbyist. :mrgreen:

147

Did not ASHI push this almost same bill as something to build on. Wonder what it cost for the lobbyist services??

Don’t they realize that mold is a source of $$ for their members? You would think that it would be a natural to keep these things joined at the hip.

Really have a problem with seeing this as an ASHI run program. If ASHI had their way it would be 250 inspections and only their test for license.

rlb

148

Thanks Joe:
I did not look at the Bill assuming everything was still the same. The Mold Bill will be vetoed by the Gov. The Bill has not met the requirements he set forth last year.

Special thanks goes out to Harold Weise from FAPHI. GREAT JOB, GREAT JOB.

149

Hi Jay,

Yeah, the only reason I knew is that it was announced this afternoon at a meeting I was attending. Too bad about the mold bill’s inevitable veto, I was hoping to qualify under the grandfather clause.

Here, here my regards go out to Harold also he has been at this far longer then most of us and has developed a keen eye along with a very thought out message.

Since we are handing out kudos, Jay, give yourself a pat on the back, you have been a fine legislative representative and a worthy messenger during the course of this years legislation; keep up the good work, next year will be here before you know it. :slight_smile:

150

Outstanding Job, Jay

151

Thanks Joe.

Next years Bill Starts the day after this session ends. In one week. No rest for me Joe. It seems like yesterday when I attended the 4 3-hour sessions with Kyle Mitchell.

Licensing will not help the public. Look at what we write up everyday, mistakes performed by Licensed professionals. Its really really sad when you find these mistakes on new construction.

A regulation that would require an inspector to be a member in good standing of any one of the National Organizations would be fine. We have too many yahoos doing repairs on homes they inspect and not following any type of standards of practice. I feel strong about education. The guy that does not belong to a National Org doesn’t need CE. That is just plain wrong.

I gotta believe the legislatures almost have it right. If there were a standards of practice it would have been a much better Bill. Joey Caballero, Jeff Rothberg, and I are in agreement on that front. As far as enforcement goes, let the National Org take in the complaint and discipline the member for not following SOP. We have an arbitration service already in place. Its funny how most of us report what we can’t see and do versus what the client is really asking for, an opinion on what’s broke. I have met countless Realtors who have complained about their last inspection or inspector. Yes, some of them are in our Chapter. I follow up with them to give them some insight because I feel for every bad inspection experience it causes problems for the industry.

That goes back to the original premise. Licensing does not protect the public from a bad job or a lack of effort. Texas is controlled by the Realtors just like Appraisers in Florida are controlled by the Banks. Inspected a house a few weeks ago. The roof needed replacement, holes is the roof, shingles gone, illegal addition, undersized HVAC, electrical issues beyond belief. Repairs exceeded $40,000. The appraiser listed the house in the top 5% of recent comps on the area. These guys find out how much the mortgage is going to be and thats what they put on the report. Real Estate prices are artificially high because of clowns like this.

To wrap up this post, I appreciate all of the feedback, discussion, and various points of view. We had a good pulse on this Bill from the get go and I want to thank Blaine Wiley for his support. I really do enjoy the position and look forward to seeing what is put forth next year.

152

Thanks Gary. BTW did you get my picture back?

153

When I posted the information that the bill was dead I did not state as to why. I have a request for information as to why. I am also going to ask one more question — what is it going to take to stop trying to get HI’s bill from being introduced. How many years has this been going on??

Required membership in a national org. is just spending $$ for no reason. How about the *** of Independent HI’s etc (if there is one)?? As we know anyone or a small group can start a national ***.

Jay Look at FAPHI - how many members do you know that can not meet the membership requirements? I think I know at least one. I even bet he has not payed his dues but that is just a guess.

Here is the real bad point of the bill

It does nothing other that to restrict entry into the profession for new inspectors. It was written for one reason restrict the market for the HI’s that are already in business.

From my point of view I would love to restrict entry into my club house and I also would make it law that HIs would be required or you can’t buy a home. but that is not how market place regulation goes.

As far as protecting the public - trust me that really is not the government’s job. Look at New Orleans

You want government regulation - then regulate the check list - 1/2 hr walk through inspections and make them ill-legal. Regulate what must be checked and then the public will be better protected.

Even Frostproof has min um housing standard and yes it is a sort of a city “CODE” — I do put in my report that a home might or might not meet Min standards and thus one might not be able to live in it.

BTW our housing requirements require ALL HOMES to have smoke detectors to be hard wired with battery back up and they must talk to each other. Sort of over the top. Lucky they do not require X number of hrs on stand by and how much smoke is needed to set them off.

HI is a service profession like a janitor. How clean do you want it??

Jay, lets find out why the bill failed and who is going to try to introduce a new one so we can get it killed before it get started. This taking too much of your and the rest of our time. At least I have a data base built up so I can just spam my list if this stuff starts up again.

I do not see NACHI introducing or sponsoring a bill - with very good reason

rlb

154

Jeff

Remember you at this time do not speak for NACHI – you spreak for your self.

rlb

155

Richard,

It appears that during your course of studies you missed political science 101, the first rule is… Money talks & bull$hit walks. The simple answer is there has not yet been enough money directed at this issue, when there is an answer will be found and a law will be written & passed, end of story.

Two years ago FABI through over $50K at the question and the answer went begging, I believe if you were to take this number and raise it a magnitude of order we might be able to control its destiny. So, if you are up to the task, or can write a check for $5M, I have the connections right now to get you an HI license bill passed & signed in Florida. Here is the kicker… If you don’t raise the money someone else might and then you will be saddled with their version of HI reality.

Do not be confused, the home builders and others want us licensed, they just have not yet put their money where their mouth is, when they do we will no doubt be licensed. None of this years legislation was derived form the efforts of the HI community my guess is next session’s won’t be either. Post cards, phone calls & emails directed a legislators are like pissing in a dark suit, they give you a warm feeling, but no one notices.

My guess is the HI community won’t raise the money necessary and join together with one voice to get a reasonable HI bill passed. So when licensing finally does arrive it will not be a version that will be all that rewarding to our profession and we will then have to adjust our livelihood to satisfy some other entities largess.

156

Another bit of information that needs to be brought out. Licensing costs MONEY! Not just up front money but from that day on to the end of time it will costs money. Lots of money. Do any of you think the State of Florida will bear that costs? The costs of it will be distributed to the home inspectors one way or the other. This is one of the reasons licensing of any profession has fallen off. The legislators know that creating any new bueracracy costs time, money and problems. Have any of you ever heard of any government program that costs less over time? Historically the costs go up each year as new requirements get added.
In response to a statement about FAPHI membership requirements; We are not a training body, nor do we plan to get into the education side of the HI industry. We do not have any agenda other than to inform the membership about what is going on. You have NO idea how much time and work some of the people at FAPHI spend on legislative issues. Trips to Tallahassee and to Representatives offices these people do at their own expense and time. As far as the membership goes, anyone can submit an application but few do because it is easier to just sit back and let someone else carry the water and hope everything works out. That is just the nature of man. There have always been those who will do what is needed and then those who just take. How many HI in Florida even knew there was a bill? I would be surprised if 50% even knew. We had several meetings with just local HI and it was amazing how many did not. I go even further and say the even if a bill passes one day there will still be HI out doing business w/o knowing or caring. BTW, FAPHI does have an “Affiliate” membership level as well that does not require someone to be a HI so it is pretty much open to anyone.

157

Doug I bet 80 percent of the Florida NACHI members did not know.

158

Thank you Jay and everyone else for all the hard work and time that you put into this, again Thank You.

159

Doug - I just looked over your membership list and some of the names were of people that I knew and if they were to apply today I don’t think they could make it.

Gary the NACHI members should have all known about it because I suggested to Jay to have NACHI home office send an email to all members in this state. We must have had some problems if you also did not get an email to the subject. I know that I did not and the same was true with some other members. Maybe someone should look into this and get the bugs out of the system. We have the technology to get the word out.

Yes, some people do not care - this is true esp if they think that their voice will not count and it will change their business very little or at all - so why waste time watching the NACHI BB or BS as some would say.

I still think that there are some principles at stake here thus be involved.

Something tells me that Gov 101 needs to be rewritten. BS does talk. Welcome to the computer age. Trips to the state capital might be fun but trust me the good old boy network is a lot smaller.

rlb
NRCC
(None Regulated Condition Consultant)

160

Doug

You point about regulation costing $$ – I agree. I also think this is one of the major reasons that this bill is having a problem. Spending on something that is not needed is not a good thing even though the state has excess right now. Why wast it

I was not aware that FAPHI had an Affiliate membership level. Tell us more. You say that FAPHI is main mission is to keep its members informed about the profession. Can you or someone else expand?

It seems that Florida has a lot of HI orgs with the same members in each one doing a lot of the same things in competition with each other. It is almost like there is a divine plan out there and everyone is following it. So in reality we have no problem

The kings new suit

rlb