Shower / Tub Stall Lighting

New Construction.

These were installed in all areas (4 Bathrooms).

Standard flood / spot bulbs with standard trim housing. Enclosures not sealed / covered.

some people are real schmucks


Where is the violation? Recessed lighting is allowed, even “in the zone”.


Recessed fixtures not specifically rated for Damp locations are generically approved?

Does this one look OK???

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How about this one???

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I would not bet these were not “damp” rated. U/L seems to be very generous with these listings.
Once the luminaire sticks out of the ceiling or hangs from a cord/chain, the rules get a lot tougher. Basically they have to be 8’ from the rim of the tub out 3 feet.

It just needs a fresh coat of paint and some caulk!

Howdy All,

greg is on base here, the NEC is very easy on this installation because normally the ceiling height is 8’ for the most part.

Recess lights are put in these locations all the time, now in my company we place a vapor trim on them just because we know the steam will build up and heat rises and well you get the example I am going for.

Here is the real deal…if the area is subject to water being sprayed on the fixture then it is required to be listed for a damp location…in the end the local AHJ will have to make that call.

I would not call it out on my inspection report unless it was excessivly low, by looking up in it I saw signs of damage or if I noticed they have overlamped it.

If it is too low I may say they should look at putting a vapor trim on it which will have a seal on it…and many recesses can be made damp location worth with the addition of a low cost vapor trim ring.

So in speaking of the original posters images…unless that shower head is hittin me in the check MAN nipples…I would not be overly concerned.

And lets not discount the AHJ here…for the most part they do a fine job…and well…they might have checked this installation…

Just my thoughts…not the gospel according to PAUL…:slight_smile:

You mean I read all that only to find out that it was “not the gospel according to PAUL”? That’s the last time I read a post simply because it was posted by you. Ha! :margarit:

lol…trust me…you dont want to read my GOSPEL Russel…lol…I am MILD in my translations here…not so mild when in the field making the call…lol

Now this trim is the ones we use, it has a vapor seal and gasket, which transforms a classification according to the manufacturers material a normal recess non-damp location recess light into one able to be in such locations.

Just so happens this is the one we happen to use…

If it is subject to shower spray, it is considered a wet location, if it is not subject to shower spray, it is a damp location. 410.4(D), the last sentence of the paragraph. As Greg has mentioned, the recessed fixtures are generally okay in this installation. There is some confusion in the field due to not reading the above mentioned section number of the NEC. As a matter of fact, surface mounted type fixtures rated for the location are also permitted in the tub location. :o

It may interest you all to know that there are many recessed light manufacturers making shower rated trims that do have an exposed lamp. They have a built in rubber gasket that seals around the neck of the lamp when you install the lamp. A shower rated trim does not have to be enclosed to be compliant. In generic terms, these are called “open shower trims”. The Progress P8072WL-28 is one such trim, and may be the one in that initial photograph. THese are UL rated for damp and wet locations.

Yeppers…notice that bad boy only costs about $ 20.00 dollars as well…not to awful bad.

Figured you may find this helpful in explaining it Pierre:

**Location, Damp. **

Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

**Location, Dry. **

A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

**Location, Wet. **

Installations under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

It is intended that the inside of a raceway in a wet location or a raceway installed underground be considered a wet location. Therefore, any conductors contained therein would be required to be suitable for wet locations.

See 300.6(D) for some examples of wet locations and 410.4(A) for information on luminaires installed in wet locations.

It is also important to clarrify which NEC we are talking about, in the 2005 NEC 410.4(D) was revised


[/FONT]**[FONT=TimesNewRomanPS-BoldMT]410.4(D): **Revised to require listing for damp locations or, where subject to [/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]shower spray, wet locations.[/FONT]


[FONT=TimesNewRomanPSMT]A revision of 410.4(D) clarifies that securely fastened luminaires installed in or on theceiling or wall are permitted to be located in the bathtub or shower area. Where they are subject to shower spray, the luminaires must be listed for a wet location.

Luminaires installed in the tub or shower zone and not subject to shower spray are required to be listed for use in a damp location. GFCI protection is required only where specified in the installation instructions for the luminaire.
The intent of 410.4(D) is to keep cord-connected, chain-hanging, or pendant luminaires and suspended fans out of the reach of an individual standing on a bathtub rim. The list of prohibited items recognizes that the same risk of electric shock is present for each one.

The use of the NEC code is to help clarrify pierres points…well done ![/FONT]

I didn’t note the price on the site I linked to. I know I only pay 7 bucks for that trim at the supply house.

ahh…yeah the site had them for 20.00…remember we get em cheaper but some homeowners may want to buy them…and they would pay more.

Don’t give our prices away Marc…we gotta make a profit;)