This was a new construction home, all the cleanouts were installed upside down. The basement walls were wet with some standing water in the corners. Do you think I found the cause of the wet basement?
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Erby,
You don't say....well I thought you were being serious. You never know, they come out with this sh** so fast my computer was obsolete the day after I bought it! 
Have you seen those diverter gutters yet? I would think they are more popular in the south than up here in SnowVille. They look pretty cool but I would be willing to bet they don't work with sh**.
Originally Posted By: Aaron Rosenbaum This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I hope there are splashblocks to still be installed. That water will just pool up and sooner or later the foundation walls with have hydrostatic pressure written all over it
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Actually, the concept of a diverter with a back-up splash pad is not that a bad idea. Those roof drain drywells are always getting clogged and nobody ever calls a plumber to come and clean them out. If the shower works and they can flush the toilet, who cares.
– Robert O’Connor, PE
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I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert,
Not that I am a disagreeable person or anything but here is my take on this situation. If you have debris clogging your downspout, you most likely have debris in your gutter. To clean out the downspout would be pretty worthless knowing that the next rain it will clog right back up because you did go grab a ladder and clean it right to begin with. The fact is that you may end up doing more damage than good. Leaving the debris in the gutter is sure to weaken it, making it sag to say the least, most likely it will come loose and eventually fall off. In the meantime you still have water deteriorating the foundation, leaking into your basement space, most likely causing all sorts of good things to grow that like damp spaces (mold, fungus, bacteria..).
I am the laziest man on the earth and I manage once a year to clean out my gutters (2 1/2 stories worth) not to mention that I am the biggest chicken on the earth.
Now, are you sure you truly think they are a good idea!
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
Most homeowners will clean out their gutters/downspouts, but very few would call a plumber to clean out the below grade piping/drywells on these roof drain systems when (not if) it gets clogged.
Then it just gets disconnected or overflows to discharge right next to the foundation ... not good. A common cause of foundation/basement problems.
Why not anticipate the inevitable, and provide for that with a diverter to a splash pad to work as an overflow ... just thinking out loud ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
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NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert,
If you place them correctly to begin with you will have easy access to clean out the pipes under ground.
Water and foundations don't mix well. If you place them upright, clean out the gutters and downspouts at least once a year you would not have to worry about them becoming clogged and disconnected and/or discharging water next to the foundation. You would also be able to place a hose in the "y" to discharge the debris from the underground pipes.
Splashpads are a nice idea in theory but good grading serves the purpose much better. When you place the "y" upside down that simple splashpad is going to be the least of your troubles. As evidenced by this new home (it was just built) which had mutilple leaks in the basement from the incorrect placement of those "y"s and I really doubt that splashpads would have made a difference.
Do you really think you can properly maintain the gutters and the downspouts from the ground? I don't and I don't believe the people that install these do! I call it LAZY! Nothing wrong with laziness, I am lazy. IMHO...I believe they are lulling these people into a false sense of security when in fact this water could cost them a failed foundation.
Around here they market this idea under the guise that the new owner will not have to climb onto the roof to clean out the downspouts. Nice idea..but how do they clean out the gutters? With all that debris in the gutter eventually it will fall off the house from the added weight of all that debris they never cleaned out. The owner will never know when it is getting ready to fall off, or until it is too late.
Do you think they can do this from the ground? Do you think this practice is acceptable?
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Erby … I don’t think they really are diverters … just me thinking out loud about that as an option to work as an overflow …
Joe ... the problem with these piped roof drainage systems is not the gutters or downspouts, which are easily cleaned (I agree ya have to get up there and clean them out). The problem is the below grade portion that gets clogged over time from leaves, pine needles, dirt, moss, twigs, and other debris.
Cleaning the roof/gutter/downspouts with a hose actually makes this worse since it washes all the debris into the below grade piping and drywells. And just sticking a hose into the piping/cleanouts does little except maybe help fill the system and move the debris to the drywells which eventually get clogged.
These systems need occasional maintenance by a plumber similar to a septic system, where the piping needs to be snaked out and the cover pulled off the drywell (assuming there is one) to clean that out. Homeowners just never seem to do this until there is a major problem ... outa sight, outa mind ...
When I am called in to evaluate a basement with foundation problems and water penetration issues, and I spot the downspouts connected to below grade piping/drywell systems on an older house, I can usually guess what the problem is with the water penetration even before I check things out.
Ensuring that adequate gutters/downspouts are installed and kept clean, that splashpads are installed which discharge a good distance away from the foundation, and the area around the foundation is graded away from the house solves most of the basement water penetration problems (along with another inexpensive trick I use sometimes as a fix). Any of these alone doesn?t work well, but all combined together usually works good for rainwater. A relatively maintenance free system too except for cleaning the gutters/downspouts ... which most good homeowners will do ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
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I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
P.S. Interesting topic you posted
Was it raining during your inspection ... or just using a hose to check out what happened after you did a double take?
You would think that some water ... but maybe not a tremendous amount ... would flow out what appears to be upside down cleanouts under normal rain conditions. But in one of the photos water seems to be pouring out of the fitting ... hmmmmm ... was the below grade drainage system clogged or not working properly causing the overflow ? not likely for a new install, but ya never know. Maybe the pipe just goes down to a pocket of gravel that doesn?t work ? you would be surprised how I see things get built sometimes as a p/t AHJ also.
If water will always flow out like that it pretty much puts the kebash on my idea to patent a "Ronco Upside Down Cleanout Super Duper Roof Drainage Overflow Diverter Fitting" ... only 3 easy payments of $29.99 ... oh well, guess I will have to get rich doing repair/extension designs and home inspections on the side ... yea right ... 
Then again, maybe if I incorporate some kind of flap valve that would divert normal rainwater into the underground pipe, but open up in the overflow condition ... hmmmmm ... or maybe a fitting in the shape of a "K" with both a cleanout and a diverter with a flap valve ... nah, the cleanout part will never get used anyway ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert,
I can tell you for a fact that a hose will definitely clean them out well enough that you don't need to call the plumber to have them snaked based on prior experience. Hose them out every couple of years by your choice or do it every three or four against your will.
It was raining this fine day when the inspection took place (this was not a trick). This was a NEW HOUSE (I mean one that was never lived in before and just completed before I inspected it), not one with clogged pipes.
Erby,
Here is my take on how this came into being. One fine day someone, somewhere installed the cleanouts upside down (maybe it was drugs, alcohol, fatigue, who really knows). The contractor of course inspected the job at the end of the day. Upon finding the cleanouts upside down he was surprised and guessed to the why they were installed that way. He thought he was just a little behind the times and they came out with some new technology that he did not read about yet. After sitting there and thinking about it the only thing he could come up with is they did it so they would not have to climb up onto the roof to clean out the downspouts and you could clean them out from the ground instead of climbing onto the roof. Wella...new technology is born!
I actually have had a few people make comments to me about contractors that built their homes with the "y" installed in this manner so they could clean out the downspouts without climbing onto the roof. They were pretty excited about it. So are they marketing new homes this way.....or was the contractor just too humble to admit they installed them upside down, or just too cheap to fix it?
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe … Not that I am a disagreeable person or anything either, but as I indicated above the real issue with these below grade drainage systems is clogging of the drywells. A hose just can not clean out the drywell, which will eventually get clogged. I see it all the time in older homes.
And when they do get clogged, the homeowner usually does nothing which results in a significant amount of water discharging right next to the foundation, similar to the situation you observed ... not good.
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
